Artist and designer Zoë Pawlak knew in childhood that life in suburbia wasn’t the whole picture, so she saved her babysitting money to spend some time in Chile with relatives. The experience opened the door to fine art and after studying painting in high school and college, a pregnancy dictated she must put her skills to work professionally. Successful in her painting, she is now making a name as a rug designer also. With 2 ½ years of sobriety going for her she is joyful and fully present. What a gift!

Images and more from our guest!

Please say Hi on social! Twitter, Instagram and Facebook – @CleverPodcast, @amydevers, @designmilk

If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!

Many thanks to this episode’s sponsors:

Abstract – Head to to sign your team up for a free, 30-day trial. And Abstract is offering a chance to win a $500 credit to their business plan — all you have to do is tweet @goabstract and mention you heard about it on Clever to be be entered to win!

Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer, aka 2VDE Media, with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Jennie Josephson.

Clever is proudly distributed by Design Milk.

Show notes, images and more at